Challenging AI Norms: Navigating Privacy, Education, and Legal Landscapes

Mark Smith : 0:14
Welcome to the Ecosystem Show. We're thrilled to have you with us here. We challenge traditional mindsets and explore innovative approaches to maximizing the value of your software estate. We don't expect you to agree with everything. Challenge us, share your thoughts and let's grow together. Now let's dive in it's showtime.

Chris Huntingford : 0:34
What's up folks? So I'm speaking to you from a deeply freezing, cold Hamburg. I went outside it's so cold that my forehead nearly got frostbite, and there's a lot of forehead right, so it was a little scary. I was wandering down what I think is the red light district of Hamburg, which is equally terrifying, and decided to come back to a very noisy hotel bar. So that's what we are doing now and today. Considering we're in Europe, I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the laws that are coming out across places like the European Union and their focus on AI, as well as what's happening in the UK and some of the interesting things we've seen come out in the press, especially from folks like the Secretary General from the United Nations. So I reckon we should get into it I like it, I like it.

Mark Smith : 1:23

And uh, yeah, sorry, we've had a bit of a hiatus for a couple of weeks, but we're back. We're back at it. Um, our lives it seems 2025 has made all our lives extremely full on and, uh, we're working on a project that we want to release to market shortly, so we are burning the midnight oil and, uh, trying to do these shows in between where we can. Anna, where are you at the moment?

Ana Welch : 1:48
I'm uh, I'm at home in london where we've done like a little of a super minimal pit stop in London from the US and we're going to Spain next week. That being said, I am in London alone and was in Geneva again burning the midline oil and just we hustle. It's just that time when we have to give it our all. I think, yeah, important things happening and we want to be there, we want to help people, we want to understand what's going on, we want to enable folk and we want to do our best. Like Andrew was saying, we're really trying to drink our own champagne.

Mark Smith : 2:32
Yes, I love that. I love that and, by the way, I love champagne. I wouldn't say no to a Dom Perignon, and if it's just an evening, let's go with a Verve Clico. It'll do me, and there's many others in between that I also enjoy. That aside, a lot's going on in AI in the moment right. There's a heck of a lot transpiring. I read Yuka's post this morning around what he did post. What was the event you guys were at Chris?

Chris Huntingford : 3:09
Technology Town Hall Talent. It's the one that Viv and Yannick host.

Mark Smith : 3:12
Yeah.

Chris Huntingford : 3:14
It was a really good event actually.

Mark Smith : 3:16
You talked a lot about our need to have a voice right and in the AI discourse and I liked Anuka's post where he referred to. Are we and I've been saying this for a while how deceived we are sometimes in the Western world to believe that everybody's acting out our interest. They're not right, as a particularly big tech big tech I'm talking about here, right as in you know, somebody had done a tweet that he has in his post around. Well, the chinese government, you know, released um deep seek and therefore can we trust them? And he goes well, you could just have removed the word chinese and said us it's a usa yeah and why does it make any difference?

Mark Smith : 4:03
because, and, and you know, some years ago I was walking the great wall of china. I went a hundred kilometers out, had a personal guide to take us over the rough wall not the tourist part of the wall and so there's nobody around, right? We're in this massive mountainous wilderness zone and I'm always one to challenge, right? I don't care what country I'm in.

Chris Huntingford : 4:27
Are you one to challenge? Wow?

Ana Welch : 4:29
I cannot believe that. I know wow.

Mark Smith : 4:32
And so I said to the guy so what really happened at denham and square? You know, like, what really happened at Denim and Square? You know, like, what didn't come out? And that was the start of the conversation. And Meg, you know with me she gulps when I like ask the real. And he talked about some very interesting things, like they had a blackout period where only certain houses were allowed to have lights on at night and stuff. This little kid went and turned the light on, not knowing getting up in the night. They just come in. That kid never saw her again, type thing.

Mark Smith : 5:03
Like so it's, we got into the whole area of man. There's cameras everywhere in Beijing. Right, you're watched constantly. I think at any point there's at least three to five cameras looking at you and he goes. In the West you have a false sense of privacy. He goes. We know we have no privacy so we just live with it. We never grow up with a construct that anything is private. He goes. But you in the west think you have privacy. And I was like, wow, what a poignant point. Right, he goes. You think you have privacy, yet all the time you're being tracked constantly. But it's under the shroud of that. You have some form of control over it, and I was like, wow, he hit that good.

Chris Huntingford : 5:45
Yep, it's a little scary. So when I read Yuka's post, right, because there's a fine line between being like a conspiracy theorist and a realist, right.

Mark Smith : 5:59
Yeah.

Chris Huntingford : 5:59
And I think you could translate that line very well and so do you. Where there's no, he evidences things that he finds and says right, which I like, but he's been challenging the Microsoft AI ecosystem and actually the AI ecosystem in general pretty hard for a year now and I've been reading a lot of what he puts up. I've got to do this closing keynotes year now and I've been reading a lot of what he puts out. I got to do this closing keynotes in Talents and one of my final points in the keynote was that don't accept the nonsense you read, just challenge it, right, because a lot of it is bullshit, right, even some of the partners we work for, the customers we speak to.

Chris Huntingford : 6:34
There's a lot of misinformation out there actually and it's unfortunate, right, and I feel sorry for people that don't challenge. But actually people are waking up and finally realize that actually they can think for themselves all right, and I want to give you an example here. I read this funny meme the other day and it was this lady had posted on Twitter I started prompting the GPT with a really accurate prompt and then realized I could solve my problem just by writing out the prompt and somebody had copied it and said my, my AI people have discovered thinking. I thought it was funny, right, because this is what's happening, right? What's happening is that there are a lot of people in the tech sphere that have discovered thinking and now we're challenging, right, and it's good, and I think it's our responsibility as AI citizens.

Ana Welch : 7:21
It is good, but I think that comment is a bit snarky. It's super snarky.

Chris Huntingford : 7:24
Like how many?

Ana Welch : 7:25
times do you have a problem and then you get a peer to help you, especially in programming, right, it just doesn't work out. And then you get a peer to help you and you tell them the problem and you discover the answer for yourself. Or they ask you a few questions and you've got the question for yourself. So like that comment is a bit not cool, Not cool, yeah.

Chris Huntingford : 7:49
I love it. I love it. I think it's great, right, it's like rubber ducking. So when you put your little rubber duck on the desk, when you're coding and you have a conversation and you figure the problem out. But that is what we've been doing for years. But all these noobs to AI are like, oh shit, thinking wow. And we're not talking about the people that are AI-ing as like professionals. We're talking about people that are being lazy, right? I think that's what the comments are saying.

Ana Welch : 8:15
Do you think that thinking became harder in the last year and a half two years?

Chris Huntingford : 8:21
No, I don't. I think it got a lot easier, and that's the thing.

Mark Smith : 8:26
But in schooling, right in our upbringing, in schooling, is the schooling model designed to teach you to think or is it designed to teach you to learn facts and check the right box and show up Like? I don't think in school we were ever really taught to become thinkers, like, do you ever just take time out to ruminate on an idea or topic and just let your mind take you to wherever it wants to take you and really deep think on anything? And I think it's actually going to be a real important skill as we go deeper into AI. And I think the cousin to this is critical thinking getting really good at calling bullshit.

Ana Welch : 9:39
So I think that you're asking the wrong audience if you're asking Chris and I, because of course we weren't taught how to think in school, but Brits and Americans, I feel they are Like there's a lot of debate Interesting, there's a lot, and I've seen I volunteered in a few schools in the UK, in a few schools in the UK, and I was surprised that children seven to like 10 are able to think about a subject, come up with a story and argument their point in 60 seconds or less and like they even have like a good storyline. They work in a team. That's definitely something that they are being taught in school. And I was also talking to a friend of mine Um, she's a lawyer, a really important lawyer in fact, and she was telling me that a lot of her leadership comes from Hong Kong. And this leadership they have, you know, children in Hong Kong schools and you know sometimes they visit each other and stuff like that.

Ana Welch : 10:52
So people from Hong Kong come and like bring her, bring her gifts in, like books and things like that. So you have special mathematics for toddlers, you know. So like a book on math for 12 months old. That's insane. And I also like have a neighbor, my neighbor just down the hall.

Ana Welch : 11:17
They have their daughter in a really, really good school in London, one of the top schools, private schools in London. She's fun. In parallel she's doing tutoring in literature, math and geography, I think because she believes that if they were ever to move back to Hong Kong she would not excel academically Wow. However, my colleague also tells me that when it comes to university age, a lot of those people who teach their children in a very factual, academics-based system, they try to get into a school in the UK because they don't feel like their child learned how to think. They memorize really well, they can solve problems, but they cannot think. So that's really interesting. I really do think that these two nations, just from maybe there are others as well, but just from my experience, britons and Americans learn critical thinking.

Chris Huntingford : 12:27
I actually. I'll give you an example of something like that. It's quite interesting. So my mom is a teacher, okay, and when the AI came the AI right my mom was like, oh, this is terrifying, right. And I'm like, no, don't you know? I said I'm like you got nothing to worry about, right, because she works in a syllabus called the International Examination Board in South Africa. It's called IEB, and IEB, as opposed to the GDE Gauteng Department of Education, this is Johannesburg.

Chris Huntingford : 12:55
Teach two different ways of thinking. The first one, the Kaatseing Department of Education, will say what is the little dot at the end of the sentence. So you say that's a full stop. The IEB syllabus. Say what is the little dot and why is it there? All right, give us examples of when to use it. And that is critical thinking right Now. It's a very simple example, an extremely simple example, but I think it's real interesting, right, and I was trained in both. So I was taught both things right, and I didn't excel very well at critical thinking in high school because I was a lazy asshole.

Chris Huntingford : 13:32
But in my work life I love it. I think it's one of the most fun things to do. And I'll give you an example. I said to Andrew yesterday when we met up I love it. I think it's one of the most fun things to do. And I'll give you an example.

Chris Huntingford : 13:40
I said to Andrew yesterday when we met up I'm like, hey, andrew, I'm on a Zoomie today. And he's like, what's a Zoomie? And I'm like, well, I've just spent five days thinking about something, so now I'm able to implement it really quickly. And I am implementing it really quickly. It's pretty look, but now that I know I can just hustle and get going. And that's actually an interesting thing I'm seeing in AI and the way that people work is that AI, albeit giving you extremely quick responses, you do have to think about how to structure the thing you're going to ask it. And then I think that's where you were going with the. This is cheeky, right, because you do. You do have to think about how to ask the question, not what the output is, and actually that's hard right. So I was being belligerent on purpose, and the reason is because I do think that actually it does take a lot of work to figure out how to ask the question.

Mark Smith : 14:33
I think one of the superpower skills that we can develop is good questioning, definitely Right Like really good questioning, deep questioning, and once again, I think it's a muscle, it's a skill that can develop. You can get better at it and I said to Meg a couple of days ago I think that one of the key skills that everybody's going to need to learn, whether you're a hairdresser, whether you're a proctologist, whether you're a you know someone in programming, you've got to really go. Am I asking the right question and is it? You know, I always feel he who asks the questions controls the conversation right.

Chris Huntingford : 15:16
It's always going to be like that, and this also goes back to my sensemaker discussion on LinkedIn, which is why I put it up there.

Ana Welch : 15:23
It's like all the people that are my sensemakers.

Chris Huntingford : 15:25
Thanks, man. All the people like you two that are my sensemakers ask the hard questions.

Mark Smith : 15:31
Yeah.

Chris Huntingford : 15:32
Do you know? Okay, let me give you an example, right? So, Jason, I want to use Jason as an example. Jason asks me more questions in a day than anyone in my life. Okay, so, jason, I want to use Jason as an example. Jason asks me more questions in a day than anyone in my life. Okay, so, jason, this morning I can count them on WhatsApp. He quite literally asked me seven questions before I'd even gotten to send him one message. Wow, okay, anna, let me give you an example.

Chris Huntingford : 15:55
So when we were working at Microsoft, when you were teaching me about integration, you never once gave me a flat answer. You asked me many, many questions about what I was doing, and then you were able to be like okay, this is how I think this should work. Mark, same thing with you. You never just give an answer, you always ask a ton of questions. And that's the commonality between all of the sensemakers in that list, and, I think, the power of your ideas at some of the questions. And that's the commonality between all of the sensemakers in that list, right?

Mark Smith : 16:23
And I think, the power of your ideas in the question, and that is the person that will make sense of the scenario, and AI is all about that. I want to switch gears and talk about the three large documents that the UK government released recently. Can you tell us your views, chris, on those and what's your interpretation of them?

Chris Huntingford : 16:40
So there's been a couple. So obviously the three big ones now are the playbooks. So if you go into the UK gov site you can download the playbooks, which is really interesting. I haven't read them all in detail, but I kind of want to hit on a couple of points there. But there were also, previous to that, the breakdown, the 50-point strategy about what they were doing from an AI perspective. So I read that in detail and I built a Power BI dashboard to help me break down each point and where it fits in and how.

Chris Huntingford : 17:10
And the reason I did that was because I read a post from somebody in the place that I work and it was a five-line response to the UK AI law and I thought that was pathetic. So I did. I thought it was pathetic. It shows a lack of perspective. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. So I took a jab at reviewing what had been written in the AI law and actually there were some interesting things that come about and the UK have actually officially identified themselves as laggards when they talk in the press release about where they are and they're very open about it, but not in a bad way. They're wanting to innovate and they're wanting to build, which shocked me. I was like this is incredible, right. What they also did, though, was they say that they are looking for talent. They are looking for talent. There's a line in the law, in the things in the 50-point plan, that says we will attract and bring in talent where we need to. Okay, so that's real important. So, switching gears, I'm going to look at the playbooks. Right, I'm going to read you an extract from the playbook. This is my favorite extract, all right, and this, I think, is fundamentally going to be important to everyone, and this, I think, is fundamentally going to be important to everyone.

Chris Huntingford : 18:18
In European AI law, it states that if you implement an AI system, you have to train people in the way that AI works. Mark, you posted that. This is from the UK AI Playbook. Are you ready? Principle number nine you have the skills and expertise needed to implement and use AI systems. You should understand the technical and ethical requirements for using AI tools and have them in place within your team. You and your team should gain the skills needed to use, design, build, maintain AI solutions, keeping in mind that deploying bespoke AI solutions and training your own models require different specialist skills.

Chris Huntingford : 18:54
And there's more to it. Now, what's funny is that we had not planned this conversation at all and I just happened to have that open because I sent that to a bunch of people. But here's the thing there is a very interesting merger between what Europe are doing from an AI perspective, including their 200 billion euro investments in AI for skills, and they're looking at innovation as well around that and looking at what America is doing as well. It's wild dude. So those documents, that playbook if I was a UK partner and I was doing anything with AI, I would invest in spending time not creating a five-line response to a law, but actually reading them and understanding what it is they're wanting you to do.

Mark Smith : 19:38
Yeah, because in it it is opportunity everywhere, right, exactly, there's just opportunity to get this right, to innovate I think it's a common word that I keep coming back to. With AI, it's going to allow for innovation and to do things that could never have been done in an organization before. Even you know it's interesting. I had a conversation this morning with somebody and they were talking about building homes, right, and they've recently had a beautiful home built and you know, normally the relationship with the builder finishes with the keys being handed over. And he was like, imagine if you run AI over that project and you brought out a 15-year engagement plan with that homeowner where you might use subcontractors et cetera, but using AI, you'd know when different parts needed to be maintained it might need a building wash, might need a ceiling fan. It's the end of life. And you can have this relationship that even like almost a ongoing, like you know, with your car, if you get it serviced regularly and you go to sell it. You go here's all the server like I've maintained this car in pristine condition. You go here's all the server Like I've maintained this car in pristine condition, but he goes. Ai is going to enable this kind of new revenue streams that never existed before.

Mark Smith : 21:04
And what you said there, chris, I just see for Microsoft partners particularly so many new ways if they get on board. But what I do also see with Microsoft partners at the moment is a lot of them struggling to make sense of AI themselves, and you know they hear what Microsoft is saying. They see the kind of three main products Azure, foundry, copilot, studio and then more of what you can do in Copilot, and you know if they've come from the biz app world they're like well, copilot is m365, play and what I'm observing there's no kind of silos anymore. Maybe microsoft siloed themselves in the past, but that's not the future like you gotta be across it. And and and I I just cannot emphasize enough the importance of data and understanding data and structuring data and why I think Microsoft's biggest baller move was Fabric and what you can do with Fabric and then Purview under it.

Ana Welch : 22:11
And it's not just the fact that, oh yeah, purview over everything, right? Not even just Fabric, just absolutely everything, right? Not even just fact, just absolutely everything. Yeah, you go plug in. The other thing that I am seeing is not just the fact that you have to be across everything, as I don't know, microsoft seller, an organizational partner, with your focus as an organization, but also as an individual.

Ana Welch : 22:44
I do feel like Microsoft tried to combine skill sets before they tried to embed fusion teams. They tried to use DevOps methodologies. They tried to use, you know, devops methodologies. They tried to make, I don't know. There was the whole pro code, no code unite Granted. That was not from Microsoft, it was from the community. But that was the gist of it all. Yes, but nobody really took that seriously. So everybody just like kept on with their skill.

Ana Welch : 23:17
But I think I'm seeing that, even I'm seeing that now, very code heavy technical people who this is what they do all day, right and architect complex systems like that, all of a sudden they do start asking themselves questions. You know about, like you said, purview, fabric, azure, foundry, the law, because there's this thing that Chris says all the time AI is non-deterministic. Programmers find it really, really hard to test something that cannot be tested in a unit test. If I put two integers in, I should get an integer out. You know, it's just the way it is we test for these things. Or in an integration test.

Ana Welch : 24:05
Everything is like very normal. All of a sudden, their boss comes and says I think you'd better just build a chatbot to give answers to our customers rather than you do, and if you cannot do it, I'll just ask AI to do it and I'll get rid of you, or stuff like that. I've actually seen that on a Reddit thread and these architects are starting to question it, you know, and are starting to ask their boss. Fine, and how am I going to test this? Like I'm really uncomfortable. I don't know if this is going to be right or wrong. So I feel like the UK AI Act and the EU AI Act is almost enabling these people, you know, telling them you were right to question these things.

Mark Smith : 24:55
Yes.

Ana Welch : 24:55
And it's really great.

Chris Huntingford : 24:57
I could not agree with you more. So I've got a project for both of you. All right, and actually, listeners on the call and watchers, go onto the internet and find me a public-facing chatbot. Go and do it. Do you know how many? You will find Very few. Do you know why? Because they've all been pulled.

Ana Welch : 25:20
Most of them have been a lot of little public facing chatbots actually, but very small from like small companies if you can find, please send me the links.

Chris Huntingford : 25:30
I'll tell you why. So even if you look at places like Kia, air Canada, heathrow Airport, manchester Airport Group, I can list off retailers going off of my head right now, ikea are the only one that have a working bot which I've red teamed personally, like here are the only one that have a working bot which I've red teamed personally to see if I could break it, and I couldn't. Okay. But here's the thing A lot of them have been removed because of that non-deterministic behavior, because people like us are getting smarter and we understand how to query the AI and prompt, inject and lead the AI Right, I know how to do that. So what I do is I will feed that back to the owner of the bots on the website and say this is what I found, but they don't want to get themselves into a legal bind anymore because of why euai acts, ukai acts. You can get sued now for this.

Mark Smith : 26:16
Let's just talk about legal for a moment, because if you're a microsoft partner, you've never really in my my 20-year career in the biz app space, I never, ever considered anything. What we built had to have any kind of legal oversight right. You'd set up your MSA with the customer, your non-disclosure agreements, you'd have a statement of work and that was about the main legal documents that you would have in place. Now I think there's a whole level that Microsoft partners particularly, are going to have to look at around their legal cover for the stuff that they're doing on behalf of their customers and therefore, when you're dealing with generally technologists in a lot of Microsoft practices, this is whole new territory for them.

Chris Huntingford : 27:10
Yeah, so can I ask you a question, and I'm going to ask it to both of you. I am a man from Poland, right, I am riding my bicycle in the middle of a council in England and I smash my bicycle into a pothole, crack my head on the pavement and end up in hospital. Okay, who is liable?

Ana Welch : 27:33
The UK Okay.

Chris Huntingford : 27:36
Now let me throw another thing into the mix. I go through the same process. It turns out the council that I was in uses AI to do pothole detection using Azure Computer Vision. They incorrectly determined that a pothole did not need to be filled. The partner implementing the solution, by simply switching on Azure and enabling computer vision, is partner X. Who is liable?

Ana Welch : 28:04
I think the customer Is it the partner?

Chris Huntingford : 28:07
So you get the deployer, you get the vendor and you get the user. When you look at EU AI acts, Now here's something crazy. The European Union AI act is extraterritorial, which means that it applies no matter where the citizen is. Wow, All of a sudden we have a problem because now, if that happens in Australia, the EU AI Act applies. It's like GDPR. It's the same sort of process. So when you go through this process of deploying an AI solution, using the word deploying, I am the partner deploying a solution. Regardless of whether you are turning the key or building the thing, you are liable. And what happens in legal cases is they shift liability between as many parties as they can.

Mark Smith : 28:49
Yes.

Chris Huntingford : 28:50
Okay. So this is why I am extremely against just randomly deploying anything within a business without going through responsible AI treatments, going through red teaming testing, correctly going through the processes of digital safety.

Ana Welch : 29:07
So you're not even saying public-facing bots, you're saying internal tools.

Chris Huntingford : 29:13
I'm saying anything that has an impact on human life. So the NHS shared business services recently released a tender that talks about using AI vision to categorize and classify certain things in a human body. I would run as far away from that tender as I possibly could because it impacts health and it is critical as far as European AI law goes, given the number of immigrants in the UK.

Chris Huntingford : 29:42
Yeah, you see what I mean. Yeah, Now, what they don't take into account is that the fact that when you build the solution, you're going to spend I'm just going to use days randomly you're going to spend one day building the solution. You can then times that by 150, getting it red teamed and deployed correctly and productionized correctly, and that's where we have the problem is that people are still putting out these ideas of like oh, we can make it in a day. Therefore, it's okay, it's not okay.

Mark Smith : 30:10
This is why you need legal what was that phrase you used then around something extra, extra territorial. Man, that's interesting and also impactful for anybody, as you say, no matter where that citizen is, and of course that's on top of anybody that's exporting into the EU or those markets right as a whole.

Chris Huntingford : 30:37
So you want to see something crazy. Do you mind if I screen share? Yeah?

Mark Smith : 30:40
go for it.

Chris Huntingford : 30:40
Okay, so this is documented on the actual website. So, if you give me a sec, man, this is why, when people put these piffy little responses out to things that are released into the public forum without reading them, I find it hilarious. So let me just get the screenshot.

Ana Welch : 30:59
You're responsible.

Chris Huntingford : 31:01
Ah, come on.

Ana Welch : 31:03
Sorry, guys. So, as you do that, last night I spoke about trustworthy AI at a user group. I was super nervous because it was like a highly technical Azure user group and the speaker after me spoke about Fabric and they had a big demo and the whole thing. I'm talking about legislation and trustworthy AI and things that we need to do and how to move forward with the technology and so on and so forth, and it just was not true, because they were really actually very interested in knowing how to talk to their leadership, their CIO, about these workloads and about the tools that they were using.

Ana Welch : 32:05
But somebody came to me and showed me you know their tool, a little customer support tool that's supposed to be deployed in many like small businesses and it's like an AI chatbot. And I was like okay, and how did you test this? How did you like this applies applies to you. You need to really look at the law and follow it? And he was like well, I don't have tons of money to give it to teams to test. I build it myself. I'm a small startup. What am I? What am I to do? Regardless that you are a small startup, you can get into big trouble unless you follow these rules. These are not like a little joke.

Mark Smith : 32:50
Yeah, so true Chris what were you saying?

Chris Huntingford : 32:54
Okay, so the scope of the appropriation of the Act is outlined as Article 2, encompassing actors both within and outside of the EU. The AI Act applies to providers placing on the market or putting into service AI systems or GP AI models in the EU, irrespective of whether those providers are established or located within the EU or a third country.

Mark Smith : 33:15
Wow.

Chris Huntingford : 33:16
Yeah, so just be careful, right? I don't think that people take into account. Actually, it's the same as GDPR, right? Like, even if you were dealing with a European citizen outside of Europe, the law still applies to you and I can call a subject access request at any point that I want, right, and I have, by the way, and I will do the same with this.

Mark Smith : 33:40
Yeah, yeah, same with this, yeah, yeah. Now interesting times and I I think the whole focused on trustworthy ai is going to become increasingly important that you know everything from your ecosystem to your, your strategic leadership inside an organization to the actual, you know AI ops that you might be running. You're going to need to build in the trustworthy AI kind of mindset across it, red teaming appropriately the amount of rigor you're going to need to protect yourself, I think is going to be extremely important going forward.

Chris Huntingford : 34:19
And not necessarily even just protect yourself. It's also respect your customers or internal data.

Chris Huntingford : 34:25
Can I tell you something? So I always say to people if data is a digital representation of you, your customers and your business, why do you hate it so much? And it's going to be the same with AI. If that's going to be a digital representation or front end for your customers, you and your business, why are we messing around so much? So I definitely think it's important more front end for your customers, you and your business. Why are we messing around so much?

Ana Welch : 34:44
Yeah.

Mark Smith : 34:45
So like I definitely think it's important, it applies to that quote, Chris, that you've said in the past If your customers knew how you treat their data, would they still be your customer?

Chris Huntingford : 34:55
Yeah, and it's going to be the same with AI, so good luck folks.

Mark Smith : 35:02
Alrighty, well, I think we're at time. Thanks everyone, everyone for joining us. Feel free. There's a new actual feature on if you're on the blog on your uh, if you're, you're grabbing this by your app and listening to this you can leave us a voicemail and what that means is that you can record something that you want us to play on air, maybe a question that you want us to answer, but you can feature on the show via that voicemail function. So feel free to use that. Get in touch, but thank you for joining us today.

Ana Welch : 35:31
Thank you everyone, thanks Oli.

Mark Smith : 35:34
Thanks for tuning into the Ecosystem Show. We hope you found today's discussion insightful and thought-provoking, and maybe you had a laugh or two. Remember your feedback and challenges help us all grow, so don't hesitate to share your perspective. Stay connected with us for more innovative ideas and strategies to enhance your software estate. Until next time, keep pushing the boundaries and creating value. See you on the next episode.