Copilot vs ChatGPT: Understanding the AI Divide

Mark Smith: 0:19
Welcome to the MVP show. My intention is that you listen to the stories of these MVP guests and are inspired to become an MVP and bring value to the world through your skills. If you have not checked it out already, I do a YouTube series called how to Become an MVP. The link is in the show notes. With that, let's get on with the show. Today's guest is from Bangalore, india. He works at Curve Digital as a solution director, obviously with my good friend Will Dorrington. He was first awarded his MVP in 2024. He's a YouTuber, speaker and blogger. He publishes Age of Copilot's newsletter to update community with upcoming Copilot developments. You can find links to his bio and socials in the show notes for this episode. Welcome to the show, shirim.

Sriram Balaji: 1:15
Thank you, mark. I'm really excited to be in your show. I've been a big fan of the MEP show for years. You've really been an inspiration for including me and other MEPs, so kudos to the great work you do for the community. Thank you.

Mark Smith: 1:30
Thank you, it's good to have you on the show Now. When I was researching your name, I understand that it is pronounced differently in Northern India to Southern India. Is that right? Is it has a different take on the name?

Sriram Balaji: 1:42
Yeah, it's it's. Yeah, yeah, it's Shriram. Like uh, yeah, yeah, this, the language is a difference, so sometimes yeah.

Mark Smith: 1:50
I didn't realize that. So, shriram, that's, that's awesome. That's awesome Food, family and fun. What do they mean to you when you're not working?

Sriram Balaji: 1:57
Yeah, family, I have a 12-year-old. He was one of the youngest Power Platform certified when he was nine years, so really proud of him. He's very passionate about tech and he started coding from a very, very engaged. He started with like a robotics block programming and then he moved to Python and the awesome thing is he his self-taught. He teaches me. I learned a lot from him. He has so much passion.

Sriram Balaji: 2:22
He created his own GPT, custom GPT tool in the GPT store, so called AI Tutor. That's for students, so you know. So he's one of the top you know education GPTs in the education category in the GPT store. When he created that, he created his own tool, a clone of ChatGPT using all the pro code ones, whatever. It's just like Nextjs, pinecone, everything. And then he started the same thing how we can do it to a custom GPT and he has set up his own server. I mean, everything is like he doesn't work for Macquarie set up his own server. You know all virtual. I mean everything is like he doesn't work from the cloud. He has everything, his own server set up and everything like that. So, yeah, my wife, she's a great cook and then she used to work in pharma for a while, but she quit and now she's a full-time mom.

Mark Smith: 3:11
Nice, nice and the best food to eat should I visit is what.

Sriram Balaji: 3:19
Yeah, masala dosa. South Indian food Like masala dosa is one of our favorite foods. I like different kinds of foods too. I mean I like North Indian food like roti and you know paneer. Yeah, masala and stuff like that. Yeah, I like my wife's because she also was with me in the US for a while. That, yeah, I like my wife because she also goes with the us for a while. Uh, she, she cooks all different kinds of food, like pasta, um, you know, mexican rice and all that. So all the different flavors my kid likes, uh, yeah, the different, uh, varieties of food, yeah, that's very cool.

Mark Smith: 3:52
That's very cool. Tell us about the age of co-pilots newsletter.

Sriram Balaji: 3:56
This all started. It was last year. That was when I told you like my son was. He was. I added the OpenAI, that developer conference where they said about the GPT store. Then he showed me like how he created a custom GPT because he had created everything from scratch from using ProCode. It took almost a month to build it. You know it was. You know all the ProCode and XJS and everything and how easy it was to create a custom GPT. I mean it just took an hour for him. So I was really curious. So that's when I started creating custom GPTs.

Sriram Balaji: 4:33
Initially I started with how can it help in my development, like generate code, data model and stuff like that. So then I'll go at the announced Copilot Studio. It was a rebrand of Power Virtual Agents. So then I was hooked. So whatever custom GPDS I created, I tried to create it. I was thinking why can't I do it using Copilot Studio? So initially I created a lot of tools for software development lifecycle. Like I created an architect, copilot, developer, copilot it's all specific to Power Platform, the prompts and everything. I created it. And also then I thought, okay, why don't I create a Copilot newsletter so that whatever I learned not just me like other people who have learned it. Why don't I share with the community that time, so that I can help everyone else? So yeah, so that was the start of the Age of CopaLite newsletter. I mean, initially I was like crazy. Every day I was so passionate about it. Like you know, work on something new and I have an industry to publish. I let it slow down now so, but yeah.

Mark Smith: 5:43
Very cool, very cool. What's your take on the comparison between Copilot and in chat gpt?

Sriram Balaji: 5:54
yeah, so, uh, the co-pilot. The thing is the difference here is the chat gpt is more like a general purpose uh, general purpose tool like any kind you can do, uh, it's, it's trained, uh, you know, you can, you can do it any task for, like, uh, co-pilot, uh, the thing is it's it's more a focused tool. It's just like a you know you create a whole version of it, you know, feed it with your own knowledge, you know, and the rules, and now it's autonomous agents. Right, you can just put the guardrails and it's trained on your own knowledge and it's so easy to set up.

Sriram Balaji: 6:30
I mean to start with, you know, corporate Studio has made it a lot easier to create it. Just point it to your knowledge. You know you can start from now. You can start from your SharePoint site, just the document library and create it, or from your Power App. So it's a lot easier for people you know to start to learn. And then it's very specific to your organization and you start. You start, you know, starting with your employee use cases. It's easy for us to do, whereas chat GPT is, you know, it's basically outside your organization, always, whatever prompts, even though often I say that it will not train it. But you know you have people are kind of skeptical. Whatever prompts you do, it goes outside your boundary. Whereas for a co-pilot studio, I mean everything is within your organization boundary and you do it goes outside your boundary. Whereas for Copilot Studio, I mean everything is within your automation boundary and you can set controls and stuff like that.

Mark Smith: 7:23
So that's what I think the difference is yeah. Yeah, interesting, interesting. How did you first get started on the Power Platform?

Sriram Balaji: 7:33
Yeah, so my introduction to the Power Platform was many, many years, like 14 years ago. I started with Dynamics CRM, specifically Dynamics CRM 2011. So before that, you know, my career always has been Microsoft Technologies in a good way. That was back in 1998, 1999. I started with Visual Basic, kspnet and NET back then. So one of my earliest projects I can remember was in 1999. It was for a reinsurance company that was in the World Trade Center. That World Trade Center is not even there. It's one of the twin towers I used to work on the 50th floor. Yeah, I still remember that. That was for the reinsurance brokerage firm. We built an application for them using Visual Basic. So then I moved to NET, net 1. That's when I started. I work in multiple versions of NET.

Sriram Balaji: 8:26
I was in the US then, so I traveled six different cities. I started from New York, san Jose, south Bend, rochester, hartford, boston, east Coast, west Coast, midwest. I was more like a nomad. I was a bachelor and a nomad. So, just like, get your car and then, yeah, just move from place to place.

Sriram Balaji: 8:46
I know you love to travel. I saw your forecast too. I mean travel and nature. You know I love to do it. I enjoy it a lot.

Sriram Balaji: 8:55
After that, I came back to India like around 2005. Then I joined Infosys. I worked there for a while and then I just went back in 2008 or 2009. I was a vendor then from Infosys. So I worked at Microsoft in Redmond for a couple of years. I actually was married then, so I went there with my wife. We traveled a lot every weekend. We planned to travel everything. I know it's beautiful, just a three-hour drive or you take a train, you can go to Vancouver. I mean we enjoyed it a lot. We went to Hawaii. It's one of my favorite destinations, hawaii and stuff like that.

Sriram Balaji: 9:32
So there I worked a tool called SQL Server Migration Assistant, which allowed, you know, to migrate the schema from Oracle or any kind of database, as well as data, to SQL Server. So there's also a data migration piece to it. So when I returned back to India, the thing is that that's what helped me. The thing is, one of the first projects I worked on I worked at HP. Then it was for a Dynast CRM 2011 project where I was part of the data migration team. There we didn't have Kingsway Software. There was actually a company called CosyRock then yeah, I remember CosyRock.

Sriram Balaji: 10:06
Yeah, I think I remember.

Sriram Balaji: 10:08
Yeah, it was one of the largest data migration projects for that. So I felt like that was the right thing for me. The good thing about because I was on NET what I liked about Dynamics CRM is it's a product, that is one. It's a little bit different. I think you have to just think what is out of the box and you don't build everything custom-built. And the other thing is it actually gave me the breadth of technology. It's not just Dynamics, know, dynamic CRM, all the related ones. You need to do reporting. I mean typical project, like you have integration reporting. I'll touch upon everything, right. So that gave me a wider, you know, set of exposure to all the different technologies, not just NET, just ASPNET, just one kind of that. That's what I liked then. Then I worked in multiple versions like CRM 2015, 2016, and then Dynamics 365. One of the projects I worked on I think you interviewed Bert, right, he was at the HB with me for Accor Hotels. We did a project on it. Yeah, we talked about it the other day. He did mention that. So that was one of the fun projects we worked on.

Sriram Balaji: 11:18
So almost 2018 or so, or 19, I don't recall. That is when I started blogging, because PCF was new to me. So PCF, I liked it a lot because I worked on ASPNET earlier, like server controls I liked it a lot. So this is more like I was like, how can I do the same in Dynamics CRM? So I went like crazy. I just created like five controls and asked you know, guido was, you know, he published a piece of gallery. I was one of the first to publish all the controls then and then after a while I lost steam. So the thing is I was not consistent, right. So it's like initially you have the passion, you do everything, and then that's it, and then I stopped it, but it was a good learning experience. And then that's it, and then I stopped it. But it was a good learning experience. It's like, you know, I just interacted with Andrew and you know Andrew Lai and Jeeva both during that time they also created VCA Control. So it was more, you know then.

Sriram Balaji: 12:14
And then for a while I just worked on UiPath, rpa no, not work more, like I just heard about it, because that was a cool thing then. So it was earlier days. We didn't have, you know, the Power Platform sorry, the Power Automate desktop then. So I was like when I saw that, oh, this is cool, then I thought I had an idea. Why don't I? Can I create it myself? I mean, this was more like a proof of concept. I could create the same thing myself. Just for the web automation. I created a tool and I published to Just for proving myself that I could do it. That was that. Then I moved to the Power Platform.

Sriram Balaji: 12:55
Initially, anyhow, since I came from the model-driven app background, it's more like learning Canvas apps. Power Automate, because a lot of it used to use code. I mean Power Automate a lot of automation. You can use it using low code or no code. That is one. And then Coppola Studio, as I said, came along. Power Virtual Agents I have not much to work on it, only when I was it piqued my interest when Coppola Studio was released. That is when I uh, you know, went deeper to the coppola studio.

Mark Smith: 13:22
Uh, yeah that's my journey, wow, that that is a full-on journey and, like I feel, like I've just discovered so much more about you um incredible, incredible and incredible walk down history. Um of this technology, how, how have you ended up at curve digital?

Sriram Balaji: 13:43
I. I mean, uh, the thing is I actually worked in Malameen, worked in multiple companies there. I mean, actually I knew Will, I was in LinkedIn, so I was looking for a change then. So then message him. I got interviewed by Will and then a few months later I joined Curve Digital. Yeah, it's an awesome place to work.

Mark Smith: 14:04
Yeah, yeah, and how long long you been there. Now uh it's like two and a half years now. Wow, very, very, very cool. Um, tell us about becoming an mvp. How did that come about?

Sriram Balaji: 14:14
yeah, I mean that's like, as I said, right, I started my own blog. Uh, you know, pc of controls in 2018. Uh, I said I was not very consistent Initially. I was like, yeah, let's do it. And then I'm like, I mean, as you know, like it's not. I just want to highlight that because sometimes in life and projects and everything that comes along, I mean it's not, sometimes it's not. You know, it's tough to be consistent. You know, once you have that initial spark and then it dies. You know, just learning for me.

Sriram Balaji: 14:44
And then in 2019, I took your first 90-day mentoring challenge. You know, that is when I was like thought, okay, I should do more for the community, because I really liked, you know, the concept of paying it forward. So how can you, you know, pay it forward? So that inspired me. I just then I started posting videos on PowerPages, powerp so that inspired me. I just then I started posting videos on. Powerpages was new to me. I knew about Dynamics 365 Portals, but I not much worked on it. So what I did? I started learning PowerPages and that's it.

Mark Smith: 15:11
When I learn. Why don't I create videos?

Sriram Balaji: 15:12
right. So when I can share what I need, that's what I did. But I went on for a few months but I, just to be honest, I had self-doubt. I mean there's not many views, right. It's like I mean that's, that's what. Sometimes it's like it's more like self-doubt which comes creeps really. I mean saying, watching my videos, I mean I put I put so much work to it, is it really worth it? That kind of creeped in. And then I was like after a while I just stopped it again again. I was not consistent.

Mark Smith: 15:40
So I mean, it's just a learning for others who want to be.

Sriram Balaji: 15:42
I mean it's being consistent. It's sometimes hard. I mean it's like the next thing was in 2023. Again, I took the second version of the 90-day mentoring challenge again Right, but this time the thing is I was clear. The thing is, when ChatGPT and this came I think this was a Coplay Studio game I thought this is my area, I like to do it and this time I learned from the past. I want to be consistent. So that's where it began. I mean, initially, the thing is this it's because I work in multiple parts of it, so it's the tricky thing is you have to choose your areas of focus. So you know my advice or basement experience it's better you choose an area where you're really comfortable and be consistent across this area, because when you file for MVP, I mean you have to choose your areas. If you're all around the place, it's difficult to tag your contributions.

Sriram Balaji: 16:42
So I was very clear my my focus was Copilot Studio, but people who are listening to this podcast. It's better you choose your areas. I mean it would be easier if you choose something like where there's not much content, you know, like customer insights, journeys, right, that would be a good place. I'm just giving an example. Whatever area, you like it and what you're trying to learn, and the thing is is it's more, uh, you know, you don't have to be perfect. That's what I learned. Uh, you know, I think in your 90 minute challenge I said, right, I mean multiple videos.

Sriram Balaji: 17:11
I learned, I think if you start, that's fine. I mean, let's say, you're learning, right, it's. You don't have to be perfect, you don't have to work with that perfect moment that you have to publish the content, that's. If sometimes it's raw, that's fine. I mean, if you learn on the process, the more it's a journey right, it's just journey or it's destination. It's not like, once you do that, I mean you know, just start, you know publishing and it'll improve over time. So that's that. And, as I told you earlier, things I created Most of the copilots I created was more automating the software and lifecycle for Power Platform. So it was more like an architect copilot, you know a developer copilot, more like a data model copilot, and so on and so forth.

Sriram Balaji: 17:53
I also created a version of XRM toolbox. I would call it like a Power Platform-assisted toolbox. Here I used A Builder and Power Apps to build the same tool. So I had actually published that, as also the tool. So instead of using the writing code, you're using prompts to generate code. I used that also. Who nominated you? Jeeva Jeeva wronged me. He actually reached out to me and was like you're doing some good work on Copal.

Mark Smith: 18:23
You know where Jeeva lives now eh.

Sriram Balaji: 18:25
Yeah, new, zealand, yeah, I know.

Mark Smith: 18:28
I might even get to see him next week, all being well, because we've got the AI tour, a Microsoft AI tour in Auckland next week. Tell me about the community or or the user base you know whether they be developers, makers, practitioners on the Power Platform in India. Do you have a feel for how big is it? Is it the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people working on it? What's your thoughts?

Sriram Balaji: 19:00
No, I think this is like I don't. To be honest, I don't have a feel, because now I'm actually attending events, mt6 by Saturday. I mean I'll be attending it, so I, I now I started interacting more with the community in the sense of just videos, but I've never it's all been virtual, but I will get more sense. I think maybe tens of thousands are working on it, but only I have and I. You know this will be first session this Saturday for the empty space Saturday, so I'll get a feel of it. Ah, whereabouts? This is about building agents with Coppola Studio More. I'll focus on the new autonomous agents and is it in-person event.

Mark Smith: 19:39
In-person, yeah, whereabouts.

Sriram Balaji: 19:42
It's in the Microsoft office in bangalore, awesome, awesome.

Mark Smith: 19:46
And so this is going to be your first in-person event. Okay, yeah, yeah yeah I'd love to hear about it. I'd love to hear about it. Um, it's uh, india is on my radar for 2025, so, um, uh, I'm working with a government agency in New Zealand. Just about you know how I engage more in that region so, and I've never visited India, so you know it might happen in 2025 for me.

Sriram Balaji: 20:12
Yeah, I mean definitely. I think you told me, I mean earlier, you were planning to visit. I mean that was way back.

Mark Smith: 20:17
That's when I was at IBM right, I was due to go up and do something for Hong Kong Bank, hsbc, and then they were able to get somebody in local to do what I was going to do. So but yes, you like to meet in person like virtually.

Sriram Balaji: 20:31
Yeah, that's awesome. I think that's another thing I love, mark. I think it's I like that personal connection when you go for a community event. That's what that makes that networking or at least people really passionate about. Virtual is fine, but uh, you know, uh, that that's, that's the thing, that's what I just want to go, uh, to more events, in-person event, that's uh, you know, that's really I'm looking forward to well, shiram, it's time and it's been so good speaking to you again.

Mark Smith: 20:59
Um, totally enjoyed it and, uh, I know we'll be in touch more in the future, soon. Thank you, thanks so much, man. Thanks for having me cheers hey, thanks for listening. I'm your host business application mbp mark smith, otherwise known as the nz365 guy. If you like the show and want to be a supporter, check out buymeacoffeecom forward nz365guy. Thanks again and see you next time. Thank you.